EP 43 - Happy Fall, updates, and the two lane AI approach with John and Jason

In EP 43, John and Jason talk about returning for fall 2026, upcoming events and conferences (including a trip to the Netherlands and OLC in Orlando), the two-lane approach to AI and assessments from The Norton Guide to AI-Aware Teaching, and the controversy around Dartmouth’s provost using AI to write a Washington Post essay urging colleges to rethink how they catch AI cheating.

See complete notes and transcripts at www.onlinelearningpodcast.com

Join Our LinkedIn Group - *Online Learning Podcast (Also feel free to connect with John and Jason at LinkedIn too)*

Resources:

• EP 36 with Miriam Reynoldson - our conversation about the Open Letter From Educators Who Refuse the Call to Adopt Gen AI in Education.
• EP 37 with Anna Mills - discussing the reality of "agentic AI"—browsers that don't just assist students but can potentially become the student. We move past the panic to discuss advocacy, "humanizing" strategies, and how we can respond without giving up on online learning.
• The Norton Guide to AI Aware Teaching Book

Theme Music: Pumped by RoccoW is licensed under an Attribution-NonCommercial License.

Transcript

We use a combination of computer-generated transcriptions and human editing. Please check with the recorded file before quoting anything. Please check with us if you have any questions or can help with any corrections!

EP 43 - Happy Fall with John and Jason

[00:00:00] Jason: So, here we are, fall 2026, getting rolling in our fall podcasting season. I know we took a little bit of a break and maybe we have some listeners that wondering what we've been doing since March of this year. What have we been doing, John?

[00:00:17] John Nash: Well, now Jason too, I mean, I don't know if anybody's sitting around going, "Gosh, I wonder what John and Jason are doing."

[00:00:23] Jason: I'd like think people are, that . They're tapping their podcast app every day and wondering

[00:00:28] John Nash: Is it there? Yes. No, we're back. we just got busy. We're just people doing things. So I don't know how to explain that other than that.

I'm John Nash here with Jason Johnston

[00:00:40] Jason: Hey, John. Hey, everyone, and this is Online Learning: The Second Half, the online learning podcast

[00:00:45] John Nash: Yeah, we're doing this podcast to let you in on a conversation we've been having for the last three years about online education. Look, online learning has had its chance to be great, and some of it is, but still, well, a lot has got a ways to go. And so, Jason, how are we going to get to the next stage?

[00:01:03] Jason: That's a great question, and I've got maybe a good answer, John. How about we do a podcast and talk about it?

[00:01:09] John Nash: That sounds risky. I don't know if I want to do that, but okay, I'll try it

[00:01:14] Jason: Okay, that sounds good. And I was just thinking about the fact that both you and I are into design thinking. You really are an expert. I'm just kind of ride on the coattails, and I, I make like I'm an expert when I'm teaching my design thinking class.

[00:01:28] John Nash: As you should

[00:01:29] Jason: Yes. But education is a wicked problem. Would you agree?

[00:01:34] John Nash: Oh my gosh, yes. In fact, I was just talking with somebody about that yesterday or the day before. Yeah

[00:01:40] Jason: Yeah. And then you add in online,

[00:01:43] John Nash: Mm-hmm.

[00:01:43] Jason: and then you add in some of the elements that as technology changes maybe starts to complicate or create some new challenges to the, to the problem, like AI and so on and so

[00:02:01] John Nash: Mm-hmm

[00:02:02] Jason: And so I think a podcast is a good answer to the wicked problem of online education in this age and for the second half, because it's more than a silver bullet answer.

It is more like a conversation. It's more like talking about what might help. Let's talk about it. Let's go deeper. Let's try some things and see where we go from there.

[00:02:26] John Nash: I think that's great. I think that many times in the past on this very show, we've landed respectively on some sort of conclusion that you or I believe in or say how the world ought to be. But many times, I think I bet today too as we talk about some things, we just want to put some ideas out there so that we can continue the conversation.

A lot of things just don't have an answer yet or

[00:02:52] Jason: right

[00:02:52] John Nash: will resolve over time, but we don't know how, and so conversing about that is going to help us

[00:02:58] Jason: Yeah, that's good. Here we are the fall now. Fall of 2026, and happy fall. It's good to see you

[00:03:06] John Nash: Happy fall. The autumnal equinox just passed, so we are there. Yeah

[00:03:11] Jason: And I think the pumpkin spice Equinox passed about a month and a half ago. They seem to be introducing that, like, earlier and earlier. Are you a pumpkin spice person?

[00:03:21] John Nash: I think that's a nice flavor, but ordering those at Starbucks is just too many calories.

[00:03:26] Jason: Yeah, it's a lot of calories. I

Yeah. So, here we are, fall 2026,

John. Be, be, be honest with me , have you been vibe coding again?

[00:03:35] John Nash: Have I been vibe coding again? Now, first of all, I don't appreciate the question because by saying again, it suggests that I was doing it before, and it might have been a problem.

[00:03:45] Jason: Exactly.

[00:03:46] John Nash: So, but yes, I did. I actually, over the summer, while we had a family reunion here and a lot of my cousins came to visit.

We had about... We fed, I don't know, 17 to 20 people every night for four or five nights and played a lot of dominoes. I noticed the struggle that my cousin was on, that my cousin Sharla is in charge of keeping score during dominoes. And I don't know. If you sit in on a dominoes match in our family and you're trying to keep score, you have to not only score after each round, but sometimes someone will sit in for someone.

Sometimes someone sits in the middle of the series for themselves or for someone. So, how do you track all this? And before they left, I vibe coded an interactive domino scoring app for her iPad that she could keep score of all the regular rules and the proclivities of this family's ideas about how to play dominoes.

[00:04:42] Jason: Yeah, I

[00:04:42] John Nash: And she loved it, and it's great. It like took the angst out of all of this for her.

[00:04:46] Jason: Yeah. That's so much fun. Yeah. There you go.

[00:04:49] John Nash: Yeah.

[00:04:50] Jason: Solving problems

[00:04:51] John Nash: Solving problems with little custom apps

[00:04:53] Jason: Yeah, that's good. Well, here we are in the fall. We've got some events coming up, right? And we wanted to talk about those. We wanted to talk about a few big topics this fall, as well as some upcoming episodes, right?

[00:05:07] John Nash: Yeah, absolutely

[00:05:09] Jason: What events are you looking forward to this fall, John?

[00:05:12] John Nash: Well a couple of things coming up that actually we're doing together, so I don't want to steal thunder from you listing a bunch of events because we're doing them with each other. But we-- you and I are going to go to the Netherlands and to Breda in the Netherlands for the Teaching and Learning with AI in Europe conference,

[00:05:32] Jason: Mm-hmm

[00:05:32] John Nash: and we're going to do a presentation on some of the practical and theoretical work we've been writing on what we call a care-first approach to AI policymaking in education.

So, that's going to be great

[00:05:47] Jason: Yeah. Yeah, really looking forward to that. I have not been to the Netherlands before. I know you have. But I'm really looking forward to being in a different space talking about AI. When I was at Paris this last spring for that conference, I really enjoyed just yeah, g- getting with some different folks than I've been hearing from, so

[00:06:07] John Nash: Mm-hmm. I'm excited about this trip because it's our first chance to talk out loud about the work that we've just submitted that will be published in a book in Wiley Press called the chapter is called Advocacy, Policy, and Community Engagement in the Age of AI, and it's in a book coming out called Navigating Complex Social Challenges: The Role of Communication.

And so it's a communications textbook for Wiley, and this piece is going to be in there. So, it's exciting to get to put out on paper what we think is a good approach to thinking about rolling out AI in organizations with kind of an education bent. But yeah, working on that with you was a lot of fun, Jason.

We got to think about how AI really is a change management problem, I think. Well, that's what we've concluded anyway. I don't know what other people think, but

[00:06:58] Jason: May seem strange that a couple of guys with educational leadership degrees

are

writing a chapter in a communications book. But as we got into this, we really just thought about just how much leadership is about communication about how this care-first approach can both help communicate as well as affect change, as you said within organizations

[00:07:24] John Nash: Yeah, for sure. What do you got going on?

[00:07:27] Jason: Well I'm pretty excited. Both my kids are at university up in Michigan and they're doing an AI conference and I'm going to be on a panel there and they've got some pretty cool speakers,

[00:07:37] John Nash: Nice

[00:07:37] Jason: Somebody from CNN's going to be there, somebody from CIA is going to be there. and yeah, that, so I'm looking forward to that. That's in October. Then we've got Breda in the end of October. And then I'm going to be at OLC, Online Learning Consortium conference down in Orlando in November, and I'm going to be doing a session there on cyborg leadership.

[00:08:03] John Nash: Love that. We've talked about, and you've been educating me about cyborgs along the way here, and then we've put together some ideas around that. what are you going to focus on there?

[00:08:14] Jason: Well, somebody might ask the first question, are there really cyborgs that you need to lead? Is this what this is about? And, and the answer is yes, actually. Cyborg leadership is both about leading yourself as a cyborg, during this very pivotal point, I believe, in the world, not just in education, but as we provide leadership in all of our spaces in the world. Balancing ourselves between the temptation to allow technology to take over versus really being able to follow our hearts and the ways that we should be human with one another, and then helping lead organizations in that direction. So, a lot of this kind of dovetails into much what we're talking about with the care first as well. and so I'm excited to talk about that.

[00:08:56] John Nash: Yeah, that's really cool. Love that. Nice. Well, it's a good busy fall for us

[00:09:02] Jason: Mm-hmm. It is. And so we, we've been talking about a couple of big fall topics. One for me is AI and assessments online. This has been a huge topic at University of Tennessee and among the people I'm talking about. I think we've been at this now, we're coming up on, on four years since the public release of, of the ChatGPT. I think over this time that you and I have talked a lot about the affordances of AI in the classroom. We've also talked about kind of some of the threats of it. The one that really is bubbling up right now in a big way, I think that, people are settling out in terms of ways it could be used in the classroom. But it's really questioning about how we might assess students in the fully online classrooms and especially asynchronous

[00:09:56] John Nash: Yes

[00:09:57] Jason: that's a big topic coming up. Been reading "The Norton Guide to AI-Aware Teaching," co-authored by Annette Vee and Mark Watkins and Derek Bruff -- people who are, are great people to follow on LinkedIn as well, if anybody's interested in this topic. And a lot of good practical, very, very practical book. Highly recommend it for people reading this fall.

[00:10:20] John Nash: What do you think makes this guide different from what's come along? You know, We're four years in, and we're still writing new guides about AI-aware teaching, which at the end of the day, and they have done laudable work here, I like what they've done, and it, it's nonetheless rooted in just good instructional design, if I'm not too far afield here. What do you think makes this timely versus anything else that's come along?

[00:10:47] Jason: I think the co-authors are really experts/practitioners

[00:10:50] John Nash: Yeah.

[00:10:51] Jason: in their field. So

[00:10:51] John Nash: I do too

[00:10:52] Jason: us what to do, but they're all teachers, which I appreciate. also really connected with people who are also, just as we started off this episode talking about this wicked problem, trying things out, right?

Figuring out, figuring out the answers as we go along. They're really connected with people, and so they, they tend to bring in a lot of different ideas and answers from people they follow on LinkedIn, as well as official kind of more writing and research. And so I really appreciate that. Like even so far, it's interesting the number of people that we've had on the podcast in the last year or so that show up in this book.

I was

[00:11:28] John Nash: Yeah

[00:11:29] Jason: chapter and they were quoting Miriam Reynoldson.

And then, Just today when I was looking at another chapter they were quoting Anna Mills

[00:11:38] John Nash: Nice

[00:11:39] Jason: and a couple people. And if, if people listening haven't heard those episodes, those are great episodes to talk about AI.

[00:11:45] John Nash: Yeah

[00:11:46] Jason: I appreciate this synthesis of, of much of the, group think in a good way that we've had over the last four years in education.

[00:11:56] John Nash: And we'll drop links to those episodes of the people that are mentioned in the book, so in the show notes for this one, so you can jump over to those and, and check those out.

[00:12:04] Jason: Yeah

[00:12:05] John Nash: Yeah, I think that's great. And I think that you were going to talk a little bit about this framework that's in there about the two-lane approach to thinking about this.

Do you want to talk about that?

[00:12:16] Jason: Yeah, and I really appreciate this approach. And it is not so unlike the, the multi-pronged approach that Anna Mills talks about. This came out of the University of Sydney, this idea around a co-- two lanes, basically. One lane that's more secure, and this is where you do your assessment of learning, and you might ban AI or make it really s-strictly limited. You might even use some ways to really lock things down, so lockdown browsers or something along that lines, and then more of an open side of the lane, which is more of assessment for learning more unsecured. You scaffold perhaps things with AI within.

You guide, how people use AI within the course in different levels, and it's much more flexible. What I like about this is because it, it takes a first stop in just rethinking what it is that you're doing inside of your classrooms. What really does need to get locked down, right?

And there may be some things, right? We talk to our folks in math, for instance, and it's really important for them for their tests to be locked down. Talk to our folks in English, and it's really important for them for the writing to be locked down in a way. So, those are ways that, focus on some final assessments. Obviously the other part of this is, is being able to see the entire process, and so being able to, scaffold something out so you see the work along the way and you have a

better

[00:13:50] John Nash: Mm-hmm

[00:13:50] Jason: of where the students are in the midst of the work, not just at the end.

[00:13:56] John Nash: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, and I think it fits well with the philosophy I've been trying to talk about with my students. It's taken me a while to get to, but it's that I think students who are 18 to 22, even students who are adult learners in graduate programs, I think, think that AI use is sort of all the same across all sort of users.

And what I try to say is, "No, not exactly." That I use AI extensively in my, say, professional work, and it-- and I use it for tasks that I already know how to do really well. And so it makes me... maybe it makes me better and faster at work that I've spent years learning to do.

[00:14:44] Jason: Mm-hmm

[00:14:44] John Nash: And I think that's the key, is that it-- us as instructors w- in the presence of learners who are learning a new skill to get as good as us at that skill, that the risk of cognitive offloading to AI is worse than them using it to create that product because it's a different skill set. I even see it in adults who are my peers who are using generative AI in ethical ways to advance internal work around strategy or try to get material in front of people more quickly. But they are new-ish to using AI in such a way that their prompting is creating stuff that someone that, like you and I, would immediately see as sort of AI...

I'm not saying sl- I'll never say it's slop, but it's, it's been AI'd in a way for laudable purposes, but it's not landing well because there's also... I think there's a level of sophistication that still has to go into getting programs to do what they should do in a, in a good way.

But it, it's kind of like the example a friend of mine gave me who runs a company in Stockholm, Sweden, and they're a food company. But they're focused on food that comes out of healthy soil, and so they work with farmers on regenerative processes and ecologically stable practices to create good, wholesome food that they sell to restaurants and consumers.

And so he's into soil health, my friend is. It's part of his business and the... And so he's subscribed to a guy who's got a soil health AI. Now, he said, "Well, because when I used Claude to ask these soil health q- questions, I get these, this sort of generic stuff. But when I use this guy's tool that he wants me to pay $20 a month for, I get much better answers because the care and feeding has gone into thinking about what the AI is supposed to spit back out, and it does this in a higher quality way."

And I think that's where people who have been thinking about how to prompt and use AI maybe have a, a leg up in creating more quality output. I don't know. I might have digressed there, but

[00:17:01] Jason: No, that's good. Would you

[00:17:02] John Nash: land that plane. Land that plane for me

[00:17:05] Jason: Would you say your friend is really well-grounded?

[00:17:09] John Nash: Ha. Yes, I would. Yes, I would.

[00:17:12] Jason: ways than one.

[00:17:13] John Nash: In more ways

[00:17:14] Jason: Figuring

[00:17:14] John Nash: one

[00:17:14] Jason: exactly where the AI can really help in those specific ways. Yeah, that's good. I think the way to land that plane and connect it with the use of AI is, like a, a friend of mine once said, "You gotta know when to hold 'em. You gotta know when to fold 'em," right?

You

[00:17:33] John Nash: That's right

[00:17:34] Jason: when to walk away, know when to run. He's not a friend of mine, but the point is that much of using , this very powerful general tool is being able to resist the tool as well, and to be able to take a step back and be

[00:17:52] John Nash: Yes

[00:17:53] Jason: how it's being used, when it's being used, and how that affects both the outcomes and, and our thinking in the process, right?

So

[00:18:04] John Nash: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, very much so. Very much so

[00:18:08] Jason: good. We have some exciting episodes coming up soon. Yeah. We've got, And know, they are going to be all tied into this idea around both things we've been talking about today, care first. There's have some tie-ins there around AI and assessments and

[00:18:26] John Nash: Mm-hmm

[00:18:27] Jason: We're going to be talking to Paul LeBlanc, who was the president of Southern New Hampshire University. That was a really great conversation

[00:18:36] John Nash: That conversation was amazing and builds on a number of things that are very salient right now in education, not only thinking about ways in which online programs can grow. So, if this is online learning in the second half, we get to depart from talking about AI all the time and talk with someone who led an institution using design thinking approaches the theories of jobs to be done, and grew an online program to the, you know, tens of thousands hundreds of thousands, I think maybe.

[00:19:13] Jason: hundreds of thousands

[00:19:14] John Nash: and so lessons there, amazing. So, that was a great episode.

[00:19:18] Jason: Yeah. I feel very privileged to be able to talk to him, and a great guy too.

Really

[00:19:22] John Nash: Yah

[00:19:23] Jason: that conversation. And then as a bit of a turn, we're going to talk with our friend Enilda Romero-Hall and her co-author Jacqueline Thoni Howard about feminist pedagogy online. So, that was another great conversation, and from a very different angle really, but thinking about this, this more humanizing aspect , of online.

[00:19:44] John Nash: Yeah. And I think I, I personally got a lot out of that episode. I've enjoyed talking to Enilda in the past. This particular book that they are the editors for was instructive for me in a course I taught this last spring. And so at some point, actually, Jason, I'd like to come back and report to you on what happened when I employed feminist pedagogy as a framework for teaching online to prepare school principals.

[00:20:12] Jason: Ja,

[00:20:12] John Nash: I think we had a, we had a good experience. I think there's a lot of lessons there I'd like to share

[00:20:16] Jason: Okay, good.

Yes let's come back to that soon.

And then a, a very timely message and conversation with Tricia Bertram Gallant with "The Opposite of Cheating" and her book that she co-authored, and our conversation around assessments in the age of AI

[00:20:38] John Nash: Yeah. That couldn't be more timely. And I think it goes along with some of the news that's happening right now. There was an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education just this week.

So, it turns out that Santiago Schnell, who is Dartmouth College's provost, has been positioning himself as a public thinker on AI and how it fits in, in higher ed. And he had a piece in The Washington Post where, Jason, you'll appreciate this, he's urging colleges to move beyond this cat-and-mouse game of catching students using AI to cheat and instead, what?

Redesign assessments to distinguish what students can independently do from what they can do with the technology. What do you think of that?

[00:21:28] Jason: Great.

[00:21:28] John Nash: I think that's great. So, it apparently came to some shock that earlier this week, the Dartmouth student newspaper reported that he, Schnell himself, had used AI in producing that very Washington Post essay.

[00:21:48] Jason: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:49] John Nash: Now, the question is, immediately we're like, "Oh, shocked." and most of that was sort of publicly undisclosed until he was approached by reporters. So, he was just like, "This was between me and myself, and I've decided to use this," but it's touched off a firestorm. And I think it's an interesting question to put out to our community here.

I don't have an answer around this, what is the place for use of AI by faculty members to put their public intellectual thinking out there if AI was an aid in that? I think that's the question. And there's no winning this argument. I mean, it seems, at least to him, I mean, there it's-- I'm reminded of my favorite movie, Casablanca, and Renault who is taking his payoff from Rick, but then he's shocked, shocked, I tell you, to find out there's gambling going on in this institution.

And so I don't know what to say about this at the moment. I think we'll explore this fall as we talk to other people particularly if we get higher ed guests on. But yeah, what do you think about this?

[00:22:46] Jason: Yeah, and it, it's interesting to see just how AI in general is hovering around this issue right now. Substack been using

[00:23:00] John Nash: Mm-hmm

[00:23:00] Jason: and so there's a lot

of just, not just in education, but in lots of other areas where there seems to be , some desire for the populace as a whole to k- know when people are using AI and when

[00:23:15] John Nash: Yes

[00:23:16] Jason: AI, and some desire for transparency, some calling out of people, whether they're right or wrong, but calling out of people when perhaps they pretended like they were not, and they were using it. And hopefully we'll come back to this. We're not going to get into this today.

[00:23:32] John Nash: No

[00:23:33] Jason: to do some more testing. But the tool used by Substack, Pangram, is also

[00:23:38] John Nash: Pangram

[00:23:39] Jason: at the University of Chicago. in some of my testings, it looks like it's much more powerful because of a new approach than some of the other AI detection

[00:23:48] John Nash: Yes

[00:23:49] Jason: So I'm-- I haven't changed my tune quite yet, but I'm open to changing my tune about AI detection software not working, because this one kind of seems like it might be working, at least right now in 2026.

[00:24:02] John Nash: I agree. My initial tests on Pangram also tell me the same thing, that it's quite good at detecting AI use. So I think it's shifting the conversation now to... because actually, and Pangram's website is slick. It's a very attractive looking website, allows you to test stuff on your own right away.

And so it's almost saying like, "Hey, you should be checking everything now, actually. That now that we have a way to know if AI's been used, you should find out." And I think that's fine, except that I think it may lead people to a false sense of sort of security that, well, okay, then now that I know that, then this is bad.

So, it's almost as if it's say, to say because I've detected any use of AI, therefore everything here is suspect. And I think there may be another conversation probably that the Dartmouth provost would want to have as well, which is what, what accounts for intellectual idea generation, and what role does a human play, and what role does AI play if they're brought in as an aid or a tool in that process?

I think not enough is known, for instance, when something's detected whether we don't know what happened in the intellectual thought process of that product, I guess, is what I'm saying.

[00:25:19] Jason: Right. Yeah. These might be all the human ideas just put together in a way that, is perhaps a little bit more ready for prime time and there

[00:25:31] John Nash: Yeah

[00:25:31] Jason: reasons for that. Yeah. And this falls right into this kind of two-lane approach as well,

[00:25:36] John Nash: Yes

[00:25:36] Jason: Hopefully at this perhaps a second pass detection, we can take it as one part of our approach, not as a full approach.

This is my hope.

[00:25:51] John Nash: Mm-hmm

[00:25:51] Jason: So, we can look at as the things we've talked about already just even today about redesign, right? It's scaffolding. About transparency, about good policies, about opening the conversation. Maybe as part of another more secure line, we also expect when we say no AI, we want our students to not use AI.

We

[00:26:12] John Nash: Sure

[00:26:13] Jason: We really want to hear their thoughts here, and we

don't want it to get muddied. We want them to do the thinking, and so we're going to create this assignment to be no AI. And to help, help with some accountability, we're going to use Pangram or whatever on it just to at least check. So, at least there's a sense that there perhaps will be some checking on it afterwards and, and maybe that will keep a few of the people would, that would go the other direction to be a little bit more honest.

[00:26:41] John Nash: Maybe. I think yes, and I think that-- I think we'll reach a day where it's going to be, "Oh, Pangram said that some AI use was used here," and the reaction will be, "Well, yeah, duh, of course it was." And then the next question is: Would you please discuss with me your ideas and from where they emanated, and can you defend the rationale for your decisions in making this thesis?

I bet you Santiago Schnell could do that.

[00:27:06] Jason: Yes

[00:27:07] John Nash: I don't know, but someone who's just decided to make a point to throw a you know, a political grenade into a room would not. And so I think that's how we have to move the conversation.

[00:27:19] Jason: Mm-hmm. Yes, I agree. Yeah. Good. I'm looking forward to these episodes coming up. Really appreciate

[00:27:27] John Nash: I am too.

[00:27:27] Jason: with you today,

[00:27:28] John Nash: S- likewise.

[00:27:29] Jason: just to be able to touch base on this and

[00:27:31] John Nash: Yeah

[00:27:32] Jason: the things coming up this fall. We'd like to be able to come back to talk about our chapter a little bit more. Maybe we'll do that after our presentation at the end of October , and maybe talk about how all that went and talk

[00:27:45] John Nash: Yeah

[00:27:45] Jason: of the aspects of our care first

approach

[00:27:47] John Nash: What is, a care first approach to AI? I think I'm hoping it's a service to the field that we can offer some cases and approaches and even almost some scripting to say, "Here are some conversations you can have to demonstrate a care first approach to thinking about how AI will arrive or land in your institution."

[00:28:07] Jason: Yep. Sounds great.

So , those listening as well, we'll put in our show notes, we'll put the link to the, the book we were talking about, as well as the episodes we already talked about. I hope you follow along with us this fall, onlinelearningpodcast.com, onlinelearningpodcast.com.

And if you think about it you could shoot us a rating in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That helps the algorithms show us to other people like you. And sh- share it if you want to with your, your friends and colleagues. I, I personally think some of this could be very good professional development as you're developing your, your thoughts around AI this fall, also trying to have these conversations with other people at your institution.

And not because, not because we're so awesome, John, although, I like us. I think we're pretty good, and we enjoy our time together. But we have had the privilege of just talking to some fantastic people. We bring in the experts and, hopefully tease out a few things from them. So I hope you follow along with us this fall

[00:29:09] John Nash: Yeah. I think the LeBlanc episode coming up should be listened to by every AI committee and every sort of higher ed administrator.

[00:29:20] Jason: Yes

[00:29:20] John Nash: I think it's a gem

[00:29:22] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, John. Good to

[00:29:25] John Nash: Yep.

[00:29:26] Jason: Happy fall.

[00:29:27] John Nash: Happy fall

[00:29:28] Jason: we'll talk soon